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Ogawa, Hiroshi Transcript 4
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| Title | Ogawa, Hiroshi Transcript 4 |
| Date | 2008-04-08 |
| Interviewee | Ogawa, Hiroshi |
| Interviewer | Uhlig, Elizabeth |
| Transcriber | Toliver, Christy |
| Subject | Japanese Americans
Pottery
Family
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| Geographic Subject | Eugene (Ore.)
Elkton (Ore.)
Lane County (Ore.)
Douglas County (Ore.)
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| Original Format | Microsoft Word
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| Data of Digital Converstion | 2010-08-26 |
| Original Collection | Japanese-American Association of Lane Co., OR, Oral History Collection
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| Restrictions | Permission to use must be obtained from the Oregon Multicultural Archives, OSU Special Collections & Archives Research Center. |
| Language | English |
| Full Text | Japanese- American Association of Lane County, Oregon - Oral History Collection Hiroshi Ogawa- Part 4 Date: March 8, 2008 Place: Hiroshi Ogawa's workshop, Elkton, Oregon Length: 00: 42: 04.13 Interviewee: Hiroshi Ogawa Interviewer: Elizabeth Uhlig Transcriber: Christy Toliver [ begin audio 4 - [ 00: 00: 09.17]] [ EU] Hiroshi, let's jump back a little bit to Japan. I believe it was in Japan where you met Keiko? [ HO] Yes. I met her on the northern island-- we were both traveling on our own. And, uh, we met, uh... as we were each watching a sunset. [ EU] Uh- huh. This was in Hokkaido? [ HO] In Hokkaido. And then, uh, on the way back we, it was about an hour hike back to the youth hostel and we talked. And we were on the same trail as far as going from youth hostel to youth hostel and seeing different places. And we met and then, uh, about a year later we got married. [ EU] Uh- huh. Were you married here or in Japan? [ HO] In Japan. [ EU] In Japan. [ HO] Yeah. [ EU] Where's Keiko from? [ 00: 01: 15.27] [ HO] She's from Tokugawa Muda. Which is a real country village. Way deep in the heart of Nada. And, uh, and then she has, uh, the damn, they built a damn in her area, of which it eliminated their house. And so they had to moved to Nada City. And that's where she finished high school and, uh, started working at that time. Um. You know, we got married in October 1970. [ EU] Uh- huh. And did you, did you live then in Japan or did you come directly...? [ HO] We lived in Japan for two more years and then we came back to the United States. And then, uh, we got situated, took about a year, year and a half. And then, uh, I applied for, I was, I was, I got back and I started working at a grocery store. [ EU] Where were you living then? [ HO] Pasadena at my parents' home. And then, uh, my father had a stroke, oh, I want to say six months after we came back from Japan. And then he passed away, uh, in August of ' 73. And, uh, so instead of looking for any other job, or teaching job, or anything like that, I, we stayed with my mom and, uh, I continued to work at the grocery store. But then I did start sending applications out to try to get a teaching position, of which I found one in Pacific Grove teaching pottery. And so... [ EU] And where was that? [ 00: 03: 41.08] [ HO] Pacific Grove, California? [ EU] Is that near Los Angeles? [ HO] That's near Monterey. It's on the Monterey Peninsula. Yeah, it's Monterey, Pacific Grove, Carmel. It's sort of the area there. Anyway, um, and so we moved up to Carmel Valley in ' 74. And I was teaching full- time. And I started, uh, building a studio and everything. [ EU] Were you teaching pottery? [ HO] I was teaching pottery. And in ' 76 I resigned and I became a full- time potter. Up to that point I was just part- time trying to get things squared away. And so, since ' 76 I guess - ' 76, ' 77 - I consider myself being a full- time studio potter. Um. [ EU] What kind of pottery were you making at that time? [ HO] I was making gas fired, um, I had a couple of what you call reduction kills. And I fired, I made basically functional and whimsical pottery. But I always worked it in my schedule for twice a year to do different shows - one in July and one in November, December - and show what I consider, uh, serious work. Uh. [ EU] Where were these shows? [ 00: 05: 45.25] [ HO] Um, mainly in that Monterey Peninsula area. I had one in Seaside, one in, a number of them in Carmel, and Monterey. And, uh, at different galleries. And, uh, it, you know, kept me, I want to say, sane in that I wasn't just making exclusively production ware, but I was doing one of a kind work. And, uh, I would set my schedule up so that I could do that. [ EU] When were your children born? [ HO] Uh, I had a son, Kohki, we, he was born in ' 74. And, uh, he was, his first five, six years were in Carmel Valley. Five years. And then we moved up to Elkton, Oregon. And he started first grade here. And, um, Yoko in ' 86. And so both our kids went to Elkton High School, or Elkton schools. Um. Yeah, we moved here in early, well, we moved here in February ' 81. We bought the place in October ' 80. And we have been here ever since. [ EU] How did you decide to come to Elkton? [ 00: 07: 31.05] [ HO] Well, it wasn't a matter of coming to Elkton. It was just we were in Oregon looking for different places to move. Or trying to find a place to move. There were a number of places that I liked. Uh, and Keiko liked this place the best, up to the, of all the homes we had seen. In that this was really the country. And you couldn't see another house from our property. Uh, it's very, in some ways, very private. And so we bid on the place and they accepted. [ EU] So your home is just a little ways up the hill from your st-... [ HO] A- hundred yards, yeah. [ EU] Yeah. And we have gardens all around. So is that Keiko's work? Or do you do the gardening? [ HO] Yeah. No. Keiko does all the gardening. Yeah, she loves flowers and she just plants flowers and trees and, uh, everywhere. In fact, I'd say in the twenty- seven years, this is the twenty- eighth year, that we've been here, she has probably planted close to five- thousand trees. [ laughs] [ EU] On your property? [ HO] On our property. [ EU] How many acres do you have? [ 00: 09: 06.17] [ HO] Thirteen. Yeah. [ EU] What kinds of trees did she plant? [ HO] Uh, a whole lot of different ones. The main... trees that she has planted are Douglas fir. But we have all sorts of things-- we have pine, we have cedar, we have a number of different kinds of, uh, pines. And then we have fruit trees-- pears, apples. So, yeah, she does all the planting. [ EU] And her gardening, is that organic gardening or...? [ HO] Yeah. Um, 1986, 7, 5, 1985, or was it ' 86. Anyway, Fukuoka Masanobu, he wrote " One- Straw Revolution"-- a book about natural, organic farming. And, uh, she, he came and spoke at the U of O and came and visited and we had dinner together and everything. And Keiko has sort of followed the way, followed his way ever since. So for the past twenty years it's more of a natural, organic way of farming. Which is different from, I want to say, Rodale's way of organic farming, or a number of others. It's just, yeah, I mean, there's, it's, there aren't any big, long, straight lines of nice vegetables or anything. They're just all over the place. You know. [ EU] What are your children doing now? [ 00: 11: 17.10] [ HO] Um. Kohki, Kohki, um, was an Asian Studies major in Japanese and Chinese and got his masters in Chinese Literature. He did go to University of Beijing or People's Normal School or something of that nature. And, um... [ EU] Where did he study here? [ HO] Oberlin his undergraduate and Cornell his graduate years. And he works, he works at a company presently in Portland called Vox. Of which he, uh, I don't know if he buys and, he buys and sells agricultural products for customers in China and Japan. And, uh, mainly all agricultural goods. Uh. It's sort of a job, but he's married, has a child, and bought a home. And so therefore, he says there are other things he'd rather do, but he's got to make sure he can make the payments. And so he's still, you know, doing that. Our daughter is a junior at Wellesley College this year. And her junior year is study abroad, of which summer term she was in Japan, fall term she was in Madrid, Spain, and this spring term she's in Bahia, Brazil. And she'll be back June and then go back for her senior year-- hopefully graduated in June of 2009. [ EU] And what's her major? [ 00: 13: 35.28] [ HO] Uh, it's International Public Health with a strong emphasis on Women's Studies I think. [ EU] So when she was in Japan or in Brazil or Madrid, is she working then or...? [ HO] No, she's going... [ EU] ... internships with, uh... [ HO] No, she's really going to school and classes. But, uh, in Brazil and in Japan she is working with, well, in Japan she worked with the homeless and I think in Brazil she's working with, uh, poverty... I don't know if the word is correct, poverty stricken females, with children, or something of that nature. And so that's part of her, she's doing something as far as she does have a class that is independent studies. The school she is at they do have, as the one in Spain they did they have quite a bit, uh, they had many field trips. And so they'd go on the weekend to different places and check different things out. What, I don't know. [ EU] And you're still in contact or you visit with you brother and sister? [ 00: 15: 16.13] [ HO] Uh, my brother passed away, but my sister just came and visited and yes, we keep in contact. She is seventy- four and she has more of a memory of the concentration camps and, uh, different things, as she was like from, uh, seven to eleven years old when she was in camp. While I was just a baby to five years old. [ EU] Before we wer-, you were describing your studio and the gallery and sort of the third part of it is the kiln. And so do you wanna, maybe we could change now and talk a little bit about the kilns that you've had. And more recently your, um, Hikarigama. [ HO] Um, uh, yeah, uh, in the 70s when I came back from Japan I had two updraft gas fired kilns. Of which, uh, I broke ' em down and brought them here to Elkton. And then, uh, in addition to that I used to have a raku kiln. And, uh, then since the fire I have had a, um, a downdraft car kiln. And they all used gas. And in 1994 I started building my dream kiln, which is a wood fired kiln. And I designed it for dual purposes. The front chamber is like fourteen, fourteen to sixteen feet long and it's an anagama or whole kiln. And it goes straight into the hill side. And it's stepped up. It's about, at its highest point, it's about five feet high in the inside. And then, I built a second chamber behind the anagama which is like a catenary arched kiln. Which in Japan they call a noborigama style kiln. And, uh, with the help of a neighbor friend, Howard Kiefer, we started building it and, uh, it has about six- thousand, six- thousand bricks I think. And took about six months to build. And, uh, we've been firing it ever since. It can take fewer, but I try to get a crew of eight people and we fire it maybe three or four times a year. It takes about six to eight cords of wood each firing and we fire, uh, usually about a hundred to a hundred- ten hours. So, four to five days. Uh... [ 00: 19: 21.21] [ EU] This is around the clock? [ HO] Around the clock, yeah. [ EU] You're feeding the fire. [ HO] And so we have four people to a shift. And [ coughs] four people to a shift and, um, of those four they work, one group works what we call graveyard from eight o'clock at night to seven in the morning. And then the day crew works from seven in the morning to eight at night. And so, um, and it's a very communal type cooperative thing that we do in that we all, each one of us takes one night to cook a meal. Uh, we all have to chip in and do the dishes, we make our own breakfast and lunch, and, uh, we all sort of split the expenses of what it costs. And it runs I want to say about twenty- five hundred to thirty- five hundred a firing. From the cost of wood; some of the chemicals you need to line the kiln, to line the shelves; um, and in the clean up as far as grinding disks and grinders. There's a whole lot of things that you don't need to, you don't need if you're just a regular gas fired or electric fired potter, but you need, you know, ear muffs, masks, uh, face shields, certain kinds of gloves. And so it's a little bit, you could say, expensive, but on the other hand this is the only way you can get pots that look like this. [ EU] And so these people, these eight people, they're all potters and they bring their own work... [ HO] Yes. [ EU] ... to fire along with yours. [ HO] Yes. Right. Yes. And so, you know. They are all potters, which is a wonderful thing. And, um, it's, there are so many things to learn I think we're all still learning even after doing it for, this will be our fourteenth year. But it's still a learning process and each firing we just learn a little more. [ EU] Uh- huh. Are these the same people that keep coming back or...? [ 00: 22: 33.05] [ HO] Uh, there are a number of people, um, I've had a number of people that I ask for a ten year commitment. And a number of them have completed that. And they have gone on to build their own kiln or fire at other people's kilns. Uh, and so for ten years I had maybe about five potters that came back every time. Uh, at present Terry Inokuma has fired here the longest of anybody and I think this year will be her thirteenth year. And then I have a couple a, three others that have been firing here for about seven, eight years. And then the rest they... they, they come maybe once a year and maybe this is their fifth year. [ EU] W-, does your kiln have a name? [ HO] Hikarigama is the name. Uh, it is, it is a, I want to say an ana- noborigama kiln, noborigama. Ana being whole, nobori being climbing, and, it's a two chambered kiln, of which, uh, I sort of, uh, at the first firing I toasted it and christened it Hikarigama. Which means illuminated kiln. And so that is the name of the kiln as many kilns in Japan do have their own name. So I named Hikarigama in hopes that it will be illuminated by the spirit of the potters and the fire. And so, yes, that is the name of the kiln. [ EU] There was a book that, a booklet that was published with the different work of the people. Can you talk about this book-- why was this published and was there an exhibit? [ 00: 25: 10.30] [ HO] Uh, there was an exhibit, that's what it is. It's, uh, there are many... oh, reasons, it's basically a catalog of the thirty plus potters that exhibited. Um, I don't know when it was, about 2004 we were firing and they were going, there was this big, uh, NCECA [ National Council on Education for the Ceramic Arts] convention, conference, in Portland. And, uh, couple of the potters, uh, Barb Campbell and Terry Inokuma, said, " We should try to get a show, an exhibit." And so we thought about it and brainstormed it and so I said, " Okay, I'll make a proposal of potters who have fired here and we'll invite them and hopefully they'll all say yes. And we'll have this exhibit. We have to find a place." So we found a place, uh, the Hills-, in Hillsboro. It's the Walters Art Center. And, uh... it ran for a month during the NCECA conference, of which the opening was very well attended. I was very pleased. And the catalog, or the book, is a printing of the, I think there were thirty- eight potters that excepted the invitation. And their piece that was in the exhibit is photographed along with their statement or philosophy. And then, uh, it was, uh, it was printed after the whole thing, because I didn't have the fund necessary to, to, uh, get it printed. But, uh, a good friend of mine offered to foot the bill if I would write something about myself in there. And I said, " No, I don't want to do it." And he says, " Well, if you don't want to get it printed, well, that's fine." And he talked to me some more and I said, " Well, okay. I'll write something short." And, you know. So that's how the printing of the catalog came about. And I think, you know, I have been complemented that it seems to be a wonderful book and, uh, I even gave a lecture at the Schnitzer Art Museum. [ EU] In Portland. [ HO] No. [ EU] Oh, in Eugene? [ HO] At, in Eugene. [ EU] At the university. [ HO] At the university [ coughs]. On the potters of Hikarigama. Um. And so that's what it is-- it's a book about some of the potters that have fired at Hikarigama. [ 00: 29: 04.16] [ EU] Could you talk a little bit about your philosophy, or about your philosophy of art and potter. And what sort of ties this community together? [ HO] Um. I don't know what ties this community together. [ laughs] That is part of the purpose of firing this kiln, at the beginning, was to try to build community. Of potters, of Elkton, of different people, groups, to be a part of this. And, um, I guess I feel I have been successful. And, uh, we continue to remain a community-- we keep in close contact. People who have come and fired and gone on their way and built their own kilns, uh, they still come here and we visit. But, um... I just, I feel in some ways I guess I want to, oh, I, I want to - I don't know if this is the right word - I want to inspire them by showing the facility and my place that it has been and it still is struggle. And that you have to, I use the term embrace that struggle if you want to be a potter. But it isn't that difficult, because, you know, I've even done it. [ laughs] You know. So. But I do think that it's just a matter of you have to sort of, uh, buy into the lifestyle and in a sense embrace the struggle that it's never gonna get easy. You know. The life of a potter, I mean, um, I think for some people who have gotten great names and shown their work all over the world, uh, if you would check, I mean, all of them have been university professors. I mean, just a couple, three names that quickly come to mind is, I mean, like, uh, Peter Voulkos was at Berkley, Paul Soldner was at Claremont. Toshiko Takaezu was at Princeton. You know. And I could go on and on, I mean. They all taught and, versus I think what you see here is more a blue collar approach to everything. And so therefore I hope that it's somewhat inspires other younger people to want to try to have something like this. You know. But that, with the realization, you know, it isn't going to be easy. [ EU] Yeah. Listening to you talk, um, I mean, you've talked about the community that your father wanted to establish - the traditional community after the war, the Buddhist community - and you've talked about community at a number of different steps here. You know, after the, you know, with your kiln and after the fire and so- forth. So it seems that's been a real conscious, um... [ 00: 33: 39.03] [ HO] I think it has been a very conscious thing in my life. And, um, I think the one thing with community is that, uh, in trying to build it, build community, is that you have to be able to let others be involved. Or let others be a part of the process. Um, and so it's not, in a sense, of being an educator and giving forth knowledge, of which they receive, it's just a matter of letting them be a participant. Whether it's cooking dinner for the group or helping build part of the studio or, um, being a participant in the fire. That, um, in many ways we don't need eight people to fire-- I think we could do it with a lot less. But I don't do that, because I feel that with eight or nine people it just give more people a chance to be a part of the whole process. And if they are a part of the whole process, they do have a feeling of, " Yes, I'm contributing and yes, I do feel a part of this whole." Of which they are. And I think that helps them feel that they are part of the community. Um. And, you know, that is sort of a basis of how I feel. That that's what I want to do. And I, you know, I do have problems with it, because some people feel that, you know, " Why are you doing this? You could, you could fire this kiln by yourself" or, " you could do this by yourself. Why rely on other people?" Well, it isn't a fact that I couldn't do it by myself. I can. But if you don't let other people be part of the process and participate, they will never feel part of the community. And, um... So, I think those, I don't know, that feeling has in some way produced all the donations that I received. Because the people that donated I think felt some sense of them being a part of this community. Even though, you know, their whole process being that, the people that had contribute money, that, you know, they had bought. That was their main contribution. But, even though of that they still felt that they were part of a larger community. And so these little groups were able to raise vast amounts of money. Which is just totally amazing. I mean, they were just, it was just totally amazing. But, um, I think it, oh, I don't know, it says a lot of the people that contributed, but it also says in some ways that I have been quite successful in building a community of people. Which make me happy. [ laughs] [ EU] Yeah. Right. One last question then. Do you still, uh, I know you participate in the Asian Celebration most years. And you sell pieces from you gallery here. [ HO] Yeah. [ 00: 38: 30.07] [ EU] Do you go to shows or...? [ HO] I don't do too many, but, uh, for the last, I want to say fifteen years I have tried to, um, I have tried to, uh, be more on the grassroots level. And so I have gone to Obon Festivals in Pasadena and Portland. And, uh, then I used to do Nikkei Matsuri in San Jose. And, uh, the Asian Celebration. And so they were more geared to grassroot Japanese slash Asian groups of trying to sell. Um. And it hasn't been that successful, uh, but I think I have done some educating to these people that there is still a different way of pottery still being made. You know, it isn't low fire, less stir or things of that nature. Um, old time wood fire, somewhat traditional looking pots. Um. So I, uh, I don't do as many shows as I once used to. Um. I did do a show in San Francisco-- the American Craft Association major event in San Francisco two years ago. But I have sort of, uh, quit doing big national shows. I do some, uh, invitational gallery shows. I try to do two or three a year. And so this year I will be showing at the Japanese Gardens in Portland. And I will, I still have to get it settled, but Hue- ping at White Lotus Gallery has asked me to show near the later part of this year for a one month exhibit. And so, um, those are the only shows that I do now. Don't make very much money, but it's okay. [ laughs] [ EU] [ laughs] Okay. Well, are there any questions I should have been asking you? [ HO] No. [ EU] Or anything else you'd like to ask? [ HO] I don't think, I think we've covered it all. [ EU] Okay. [ HO] Yeah, I don't know. [ laughs] [ EU] Okay. [ laughs] [ HO] I think we covered too much, but... [ laughs] [ EU] [ laughs] Okay. [ 00: 41: 59.09] [ HO] [ laughs] Thank you very much. [ EU] Okay. Thank you, Hiroshi. [ end audio 4 - [ 00: 42: 03.08]] |
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