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| Title | Toyama, David Transcript Part 2 |
| Date | 2008-02-27 |
| Interviewee | Toyama, Davd |
| Interviewer | Uhlig, Elizabeth |
| Transcriber | Uhlig, Elizabeth |
| Subject | Japanese Americans
Pearl Harbor (Hawaii), Attack on, 1941
Documents
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| Geographic Subject | Hawaii
Japan
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| Original Format | Microsoft Word
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| Data of Digital Converstion | 2010-07-01 |
| Original Collection | Japanese-American Association of Lane Co., OR, Oral History Collection
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| Restrictions | Permission to use must be obtained from the Oregon Multicultural Archives, OSU Special Collections & Archives Research Center. |
| Language | English |
| Full Text | Japanese- American Oral History Project David Toyama Date: April 15th 2007 Place: Eugene, Oregon Interviewer: Elizabeth Uhlig Interview with David Toyama – Part 2 Part 2 - 30: 55 minutes 00: 00 EU: David, you were telling us about the Japanese school that you went to for eight years. DT: Eight years. EU: Was that every day after school? DT: Every day after school, Monday through Friday EU: Did you just learn the language, or did you learn other things there? DT: Well, uh, that's the three (??), reading, writing, that kind of thing. Mainly reading and writing. We would read from the text book, you know. They would have us write things out. So, we had to learn those Chinese characters. Now, to what extent we learned, I don't remember, but the easy ones, of course. You know, the ones that you start off with, they're basically that. But we were talking about a relocation camp as well as the Japanese school. The teachers, by this time, I heard that all were sent to the relocation camps, because they were Japanese nationals. I guess they felt they had to close of ties with Japan. 01: 17 EU: So, even from Hawaii, they were sent to the relocation camps on the mainland? DT: Yes, some did, but they were very selective on who was sent to a relocation camp, but we knew that was going on because of that. It was very few though, really, comparatively speaking, you know, the numbers. Things like priests, because they had the Buddhist Temples, those priests were also taken. And, I think, Japanese fisherman, if you were a fisherman, I think some of them were hauled away too. But, otherwise, the strange thing is, during the summers, when I moved to Honolulu, there is no school or class during the summer, so I used to work on a military base. The base, where I worked, itself is all Japanese- Americans. So, we were on military bases, like, I remember, one was a Naval Air Training Station. So, we were stringing that camouflage netting. They have this cable over this, they make bunkers, hangers, like in front of planes, with sand built up on the side. And there were posts up there, and we had to go on this cable, this thick cable, maybe 2- by- 6 feet long, to cut the cables and string, tie the camouflage netting on top of that, so you can't see from the air. But, so they had us on the base, and we were closer to the Japanese coming down to Midway and all those places than the West Coast, because the West Coast, everybody got evacuated, 02: 51 EU: Was there ever any anger or bitterness about the irony on the mainland, or people being put into camps? DT: No, the funny thing was, in Hawaii, I guess, they didn't realize what really was going on. And, unfortunately, too, in that era, they never used to get a long, the state- side Japanese and the Hawaiian Japanese. Even in the 100th Battalion, the 100th Battalion was all Hawaiian, when they merged with the 442, then the majority was state- side Japanese- Americans, and I understand they used to clash a lot. 03: 34 EU: Why was that? DT: The Hawaiian people figured that they would stick together and the mainland people would stick together, and they had two different camps. So, my friend used to say, when I was in the Battalion Office, one of the guys in the office was with the 442, and he was from California, and he says-- This Hawaiian guy was there, and he says-- What do they call him? Uh, First Sergeant, or whatever it is. He got to go out and choose things (??), ‘ Get out, get out of here.' And then it was not nice anymore, ‘ Get the hell out of here.' They had to go out and form a line and clean the yard and stuff like that. And he says to the other person, there was this one guy, one kid came up and said, he said, ‘ Yo, pick me up.' And he says, ‘ Pick you up? Can't you walk by yourself?' See, I didn't know what he meant then, but what he meant is that he wanted to fight me. Except he didn't learn [ unintelligible, slurred speech]. But they would not tolerate that, military wise, he got into trouble. You know, he may be a Private, and this guy could be a First Sergeant, and they didn't care. They never used to get along before. Why, I don't know. 04: 47 They called the, the Hawaiians all called the mainland- Japanese ‘ Kutonk.' Kutonk, they said, because if you drop them, you hit them and they drop, the head would hit the ground, and they would say ‘ Kutonk.' So they named them Kutonk, because they fall easy. They used to tease them like that. It's really weird, the history of that one. But, Hawaii people, I would blame them for that, that discriminatory attitude, because, uh, she, would be my, it used to be, my niece was going to school in Concordia, in Portland. That's a University that she got into, and I did help the mother to find one of the houses they rented and help them find second- hand, and by second- hand, you know, dining set, and things like that for them, but she was my niece. Once we drove up there, just for the lunch hour, and so here she is walking. The house is about one block or two blocks from the school. So, it was just a walking commute. She was walking back with two other girls and they all had these lunches, in little plastic boxes, and they went into the house and took out their food and started eating. And I said, ‘ Why do you guys, why do you waste time, you know it's a 5, 10 minutes back and fourth, and eat in the Cafeteria?' They said, ‘ Oh,' they don't like it. ‘ It's all state- side people.' So university kids and girls are stiff (??). Isn't that something? I was really surprised at them. Especially in my case, I have been living over here for how many years, since 1969, so about 35 years, you know. So my son is married to a Caucasian and my daughter is married to a continental (??). So my granddaughters are all-- But those three, I can't understand it. They're still like that. But the old days, I know that when the 442 and the 100th Infantry Battalion, they used to have problems, that same outfit. 07: 06 EU: How did you get into the MIS, the Military Intelligence Service? DT: The Korean War. When the Korean War broke out in 1950-- EU: So you were working in Honolulu throughout the whole war? DT: Yes, at first I was working in that public accounting office. In the Von Hamm Young accounting office, and then I checked and understood to be a CPA [ Certified Public Accountant], you had to first work five years in a public accounting office, not a corporate office. Because, you know, you are exposed to various types of businesses, in a public office. So, I worked in a public office. We had to take exams. I took the exam. I did pass, so I just opened, I got that something in my car and what not (??), a public accounting office. I did that. Shortly after I opened that public accounting office is when I got my draft notice. So, it must have been about September of 1950. 08: 22 EU: So, you got a second draft order then, for the Korean War? DT: For the Korean War, yeah. The first one I was deferred. But, so, this one, I was sent to Korea, the Korean War was going on, and we went there in December of 1950. It was real terrible, going from Hawaii to the mountains of Korea. And in winter, there was nothing but snow on the hills. And we were sent up to the mountain tops everyday, and you had to dig foxholes. At night, you get a shelter- half. They were so unprepared for the war, and theoretically, the two- buddy system, with the shelter- half, shelter- half, put together to make a tent. But those that didn't have enough, so some have shelter- half, some don't have. You just have your raincoat to cover yourself. It didn't matter too much, because every night we would be chased up the hill by the Chinese that came in. They would chase up the hill every night, we got chased up. In the morning then, since we have artillery in the Air Force, they would go and chase them up the hill, then move up the hill and back. That's all it was, back and forth, in the Korean War. EU: Where did you do your training? DT: In Schofield, that's in Hawaii. For three months. EU: Had you ever been out of Hawaii then, to the mainland, before? DT: Before that, no, I had not. EU: So, when you went to Korea was the first time? 10: 01 DT: I went overseas, yes, to Korea. And then about one month, I think, of just being chased up the hill every night and nothing but snow to live in, you know, we got kicked off the hill as usual, but this time, they chased the U. S. forces down the hill too. So, they over ran our kitchen train. The people working in the kitchen used to live in nice, big tents, and they didn't go up on the hill. They sleep in tents, but they got overran. So, about three of them got hurt. And so, the next morning, after we got stabilized, they were saying, the whole company got assembled and there was about two hundred people, and they said, ‘ who wants to work in the kitchen?' Everybody wanted to step into (??) the kitchen, and everybody volunteered. The company commander said, ‘ Okay, I'm gonna make it fair." The mess sergeant, the guy in charge of the mess hall, and him would be the judges, and everybody go through the line and make the same breakfast: two eggs, because we had fresh eggs there, two eggs and three pancakes, I think. You make your own, and they watch you making that thing. And so, when I was going through the line, I said, ‘ this should be easy,' I said. Then I went to turn that pancake over to him, and there were some out there that had not even put it down yet. And that's when working in a restaurant while I was going to business school really paid off. I knew when to just flip it over. But the thing, I figured, well, I could be risky and take a chance, but, actually I was basically guaranteed to get in the kitchen train if I don't goof this up. I got the egg, and I cracked it in a frying pan, and we about had it. I broke the shell and tore the shell away, and I did two of them. And then, you had to make it over easy. So I never liked using a spatula to turn over, so I just used the flip I had, and flipped it over nicely. So they say, ‘ you are it.' 12: 07 So, I got off in the kitchen train for about a month or two, then the word came out. It says, ‘ Does anybody speak Japanese?' And, I says, ‘ I do', and I says, ‘ Why?' And they said, ‘ Because the intelligence unit is looking for people to speak Japanese to become interrogators.' Because they wanted interrogators. I said, ‘ I speak enough Japanese.' So, they flew us from the frontline way to the headquarters, way, way down south, where an airplane had to fly you down there. And then this guy that was giving us this test in Hawaii (??) said, ‘ Okay, all you guys got one night,' and they gave us this military book, big book, I still have it, I think, as a souvenir, with all the military terminology. They said, ‘ you better study this tonight, because tomorrow the exam is on military terminology, which is what you are going to have to interrogate prisoners on.' So, there was a book and I studied it and the next morning I took a test, and it says, ‘ Sorry, you just missed it. You got a 9.9 and you need a 10.0 minimum.' So, I told the guy, ‘ it's not fair. That book is that thick, and you expect us in one night to learn all that. He says, ‘ Have you ever heard half, or three fourths of the terms that are in there in Hawaii?' I said, ‘ No. If you ask me in simple language, I will give you the answer,' you know. We tried that. He gave some example, he did. He looked at things and the technical terms they have in the book. ‘ A mountainous region,' I ain't never heard that before, but when he says ‘ a lot of mountains,' I thought what he means is ‘ lots of mountains.' Yes, I know. He says, " Okay, and your 9.9 is close enough. So, with you, another night.' And I passed, and that's how I got into intelligence. 13: 48 EU: So, who were you-- Why did they need a Japanese speaker in Korea? DT: Because they found out that all of the Koreans, the North Koreans, my age and older, right, they all spoke Japanese, because Japan had occupied Korea for many, many years. They all spoke Japanese. So, our interpreters were Korean teachers. We had three Korean teachers, and, of course, they were fluent in Japanese too. So, and they were fluent in Chinese, too. So, these teachers, when we got Chinese prisoners, they would talk to them in Chinese. So, I learned many of the Chinese terms also because of that repetition, you know, day after day. But, so, that's how I got into Intel. But, then, it was a one year tour, and every night we used to drink beer. And, of course, typical military, they would just sit around and drink beer. And these two fellas who used to be in civilian clothes, they had a separate table right close to ours, and with certain prisoners, they would tell us to refer to them. I forgot what the criteria was, but in any case, they were all in civilian clothes, and I didn't know what they wanted. Then one night we were drinking and he says, ‘ When you going back?' I was going back in like two weeks or something. They said, ‘ Would you like to go back and work in our outfit?' I said, ‘ What kind of outfit are you in?' They said, ‘ Counterintelligence school.' I said, ‘ Counterintelligence school, what the devil is that?' Then they said, ‘ Well, you wear a suit and tie in Japan. You don't have to wear a uniform.' Then I said, ‘ Well, heck yeah!' And then they said, ‘ Well, okay.' 15: 26 Then they gave me a simple test and they said that they were going to mail it back to the unit and get it back right away. And they said, ‘ Okay, you're accepted,' they said. ‘ You passed the test,' they said. So, they gave me $ 300 that day. They says, ‘ When you reach Japan,' he says, ‘ you go to the PX [ Parcel Exchange] and you buy suit and tie and civilian shoes, and then you report to this address in the down town. I think (??) its an office building, and you can't go there in uniform. And that's how I got into military intelligence. EU: Were you married at that time? DT: No, I was single, but then I got into the Counterintelligence Corps and we were assigned to one field office, we had what they called field offices, and our job, mainly, is to work through the Japanese government agencies, the police agencies and the intelligence agencies, like a liaison. It was still the occupation era, so they were still under us. So, even the police Chief, if you wanted to see him, you didn't need to go there, you call him and tell him ‘ I want to see you,' and he has to come into our office, because it was still that type of period. But, so, everything was, what shall I say, not like being in the service, or doing any working, and we had a carpool, a motor pool, would drive us. Anytime we wanted to go anywhere, we just a get a cop and they would take us around where we want to go. 16: 57 EU: And so you were stationed then in Tokyo? DT: Kobe. EU: Oh, Kobe. DT: First in Kobe. And, so then I wrote to Jean. I said, ‘ Hey, you want to come to Japan and get married? It's like our honeymoon the first year in Japan." And I described what I do, so you see (??), not the military life seriously (??). So she said, " Okay" and she came. So we got married in Japan. EU: Where did you meet her? How long had you known her? DT: I knew her from when I was going to Business College, because we used to part- time in the same restaurant. That's how I got to know her there. And so in Kobe, we got married. I got a picture there someplace. We had to get married three times, so we have three anniversaries; because they told me that first I have to register with the Japanese Ward Office, it's the City Hall, and I have to open a family registry under my name, and then add her on as my dependent, because she's there on a tourist visa. Then she would be a dependent of the military as far as the Japanese government is concerned. I had to do likewise with the American Embassy, go to the American Embassy, and it's, what do you call them, paper tight ceremony. I tell them, ‘ Yeah, she's my wife,' and then so I gave them my Marriage Certificate, so she would have a military dependent type visa, not that tourist visa that she came over. Then we had a regular church weding at the Post church. So we had three ceremonies. EU: You said before that you had gone to the church in Kawai, a Baptist Church. 18: 43 DT: Yes. EU: So you were Christian then, not Buddhist? DT: Yes, not Buddhist. No. Because, what did they call those people? Anyway, I went as far as being baptized, I remember, and baptism in those days was in the ocean, you had to go. I guess that why they call it ‘ Baptist' too, you have to be baptized. But that's how I got my name, David, too, because the Minister's wife, Mrs. Gonder, they're Canadians, from Canada. They were missionaries in China for many years, and this last assignment in Kawai was there retirement. You know, last assignment before retirement and go back to Canada. But they were there three years, and I was going to church and she told me that I would have to go and get the legal English name put on because my Japanese name, she says, you know it's embarrassing because people think I am Piecing you (??), because she pronounced my name ‘ Casanova.' EU: What was your Japanese name? 19: 57 DT: It's ‘ Kazunobu (??),' but she can not pronounce Kazunobu (??) so she said Casanova. So she said, ‘ You go get it,' and then she just picked a name, and said, I want you to go get the name ‘ David' in there too. That's how I got to be David. So then they legalized it. And when I went to Honolulu Business College, the principal was a lawyer. And when they asked me at school if this was my legal name, I said, ‘ Not really.' So they said, ‘ He'll legalize it for you, if you want.' So, I says, ‘ Yeah,' then he took the paperwork and made it legal. EU: Did your brothers and sisters and your cousins, did they have Japanese names then or English names? DT: Japanese names, that's why, let me see [ unintelligible mumbling]. They never had English names, none of them, because of that. Uh, one of them, I don't know whether it's legal, but I guess if you use it long enough it becomes legal. One of them, was it Inrichihy (??) adopted the name Richard and was known as Richard. But the others are just regular Japanese names. EU: So, can you tell me a little bit about Jean's family then? DT: Jean's family, yes, they were-- When I first met them, they were in Honolulu, or Kaneohe, one of those towns or cities, whatever it is, across the island from Honolulu. It's a mountain range, and across there, they had a large banana patch there, huge acreage in the banana field. So, I know that they use to do that, the banana field. But, I don't remember, but all the sudden that family, her family, moved to Los Angeles. Of course, her parents were all retirement age too, or at least they were by then (??). So, they moved to Los Angeles., and I think they sold that banana patch and what not, and moved there so. Her brother, she has not brother-- Her sisters took a move with her parents, so they moved also to Los Angeles, and they all stayed in Los Angeles. So we used to drive down from here a lot to L. A., every summer you know, with my grand kids, and visit them. But, oh I can't remember the time, but they both passed away many, many years ago. Fifteen, twenty years ago, I forgot now. 22: 40 EU: Okay, getting back to Kobe, then. DT: Kobe? EU: So you were first stationed then in Kobe? DT: Kobe first, yes. EU: So where did you live then after you got married? DT: Where did I live? EU: Where did you live? Did you have a home in a Japanese neighborhood? Or did you live on the base? Or where-- 23: 01 DT: No, they had military housing, so we stayed in there, in the military housing, which is real nice too. So we lived there from, uh, the 1950s, when we got married, she came over-- No, I got drafted in 1956. In ' 52, she came over and got married. The reason I stayed in, she wanted to stay. I was done, about ready to get out, because it was a two year, a two and a half year thing, the draft, and that's it. So, she wanted to stay in Japan a little longer because if they wanted to go to the PX, they get a car and a chauffeur to drive them down there. They had the real easy life. A lot of people had amazed (??) because all it cost them was about ¥ 9,000, which was $ 22.00 or something like that, a month, which was a good raise for them too. Life was real easy, so I said, ‘ Okay, I'd like to stay in one year then." Then when I extended one year, they said, ‘ Okay, your status as special agent is temporary because you did not go through that course.' And I had to attend a six- month course that was in Baltimore at the time. And since I had already extended myself to one year, they sent me to that school. EU: In Baltimore? DT: In Baltimore. And, it was six months. I had to go through that intelligence school. And after I finished, they said, ‘ Well, you're going back to Japan.' EU: Did Jean go with you then? DT: Oh, yes. EU: To Baltimore? David: Baltimore, too. And that's how nice that outfit was. Every place, except for when I went to Vietnam, of course dependants can't go there, and a one year tour in Korea also, not during the Korean War, but after when I became a-- In the intelligence unit, so ' 57, in ' 56, we were sent back to Japan, this time in Tokyo. Because by then I had the Kobe experience also, and they needed people that spoke the language a little more fluently because it's all national headquarters there, in Tokyo. And there are many, many agencies that we had to maintain a liaison with. And that's why they would not send me home, because they don't have enough people that spoke the language. And that's why we eventually ended up 17 years. 26: 00 EU: 17 years? DT: In Japan, yeah. EU: So, you were first in Kobe, and then you went to Korea, and then Tokyo? DT: Yeah, from Kobe, I went to Baltimore. Then finished the school, and to Tokyo. EU: Oh, Then to Tokyo? DT: Yeah, and I stayed there a long time. EU: Where did you live in Tokyo? DT: Well, uh, I know the second place. I'm not sure (??), but the first one was, uh, I forgot the name of it, but it became the Olympic housing. The military turned that housing over for the Olympic Village. EU: By Yoyogi? DT: By Yoyogi. Yoyogi Station. How do you know Yoyogi Station? EU: I taught English in Japan. DT: Eh? EU: Yeah, and I lived in Shibuya. 26: 50 DT: Shibuya, yeah. EU: So, that was right near where the Olympic-- Yeah. DT: The Olympic housing there. EU: I forget what kind of housing-- As a matter of fact (??), the Yoyogi Train Station was there, and then right behind the train station is a Jasuke (??)-- Not a Yasuke (??) shrine, but some other shrine anyway. EU: Meiji shrine? DT: Is that a Meiji shrine? I forgot. EU: Yeah. DT: Then right in the back of the shrine is that housing. We stayed there, and later we got moved to Narimasu. EU: To where? DT: Narimasu. It's, uh, Narimasu would be, I guess, north of Shibuya. Going towards Saitama anyway, the next prefecture. Closer to Saitama more than-- There was another mess of houses and a neighborhood there. And that's where we moved to. EU: Did you get out, I suppose, into the Japanese neighborhoods and all around Tokyo for shopping and things? 27: 54 DT: Yes, for shopping we used to go down, especially even for dinner and things because-- In fact, over there, my, I don't know how all my daughters, in Japanese, they are 52 and 53 now, I remembered, how old they were, and my son, ten more. On nights, they would go out for dinner a lot, because there was sushi there, you know one bowl of a sushi thing, was something ¥ 100 or something. It was 30¢ you know. There was no sense in them cooking when they could go out. Also because I hardly go home at night, because the liaison and Japanese aides, all they would do is drink and party. And you know how big it is in Japanese custom when you go out with one section chief-- Every department has four sections, so you got to make sure that you make the same rounds because if they found out that you had been out with these guys and not with me and that type of thing, then you would be in trouble. Likewise golf. That is why I started to take golf, because golf was becoming popular in the division chiefs and up can go golfing, so, if they go with me, because of liaison, you know. So, I had to go golfing every single day for five days. And since they were just learning, every single one of them wanted two 18- holes, two 18- hole rounds a day. So, we would go out early in the morning, play 18, have lunch, then 18, then they would take me to dinners. Everyday, everyday that happened. Saturday and Sunday, I would go golfing with my friends, but some times I would have to go with them too. But, uh, towards the end, after I became the, military wise, they called it the 29: 57 Commander, in our agency it was known as Special Agent in Charge. The person in charge of the Tokyo office. I was in charge of that, so towards the end, so it was worse. If you were the head man in that office, and you don't go, you insult, you know, when they don't get an invitation. I know they valued education, so I told them, ‘ Look, I'm sorry, but I am taking classes at night,' which I did. I did that because after you drink every night and every night, it's really hard work. And so, I had to make assignment; you tonight, you tonight. Then I had to explain to them why, because I go to school. But, that's how I got out. A lot of these parties at night too. The Japanese that were doing business was, it sounds great: party every night, party. EU: I am going to stop here for a minute. |
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